- EO Charging gives a turnkey service for automobile fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair components of the electrification stack. President and Chief Business Officer John Walsh instructed us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets usually overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll must preserve their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early phases of a undertaking, together with good vitality administration, will help a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Completely different fleets have completely different infrastructure wants. EO charging provides month-to-month fee plans based mostly on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, to be able to tackle completely different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like operating a site or a cellular phone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) rely upon a stack, which is a hip means of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that operate collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be complicated. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others could rely upon extremely specialised proprietary know-how. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it methods which are anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising subject reminiscent of EV charging infrastructure, it could be arduous for potential clients to determine how the completely different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the forged of characters is massive, and the relationships amongst them could be complicated—just like the checklist of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some corporations focus on one layer of the stack, and others provide a turnkey package deal, offering all of the services and products themselves and/or subcontracting with different companies.
What’s the most effective course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match completely different corporations for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a set month-to-month value? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Business Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and supplied some suggestions for patrons.
Charged: What sort of clients does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal clients are transit authorities, college districts and fleets, reminiscent of Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which are beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re concentrating on these as effectively.
The issue on this trade is that everybody’s all in regards to the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the largest problem with charging immediately—everybody thinks, “Man, if I may simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve bought what I want.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You have been previously Chief Business Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about quite a bit. I for one thought it was an ideal firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra by way of the lens of John Walsh may be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a 12 months in the past, a little bit bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had lots of capital that bought burned by way of very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I might say, greater than something.
However don’t hand over on Proterra. The corporate was offered in three items—battery methods, chargers and buses—and there are three completely different house owners now. Proterra had the most effective battery know-how on the planet, and it’s nonetheless the most effective battery know-how. There are lots of corporations that can use their battery methods and have lots of success. I feel the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper by way of the know-how that was given start by Proterra.
Sorting by way of the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are lots of items to the charging puzzle. You’ve your personal proprietary software program, and also you provide a full turnkey package deal for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s known as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you place the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} corporations. And to us, it’s a buyer’s alternative. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good alternate options based mostly on the ability ranges that they want. While you discuss to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually necessary that individuals overlook. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply you need to preserve the chargers?” Nicely, it’s worthwhile to preserve your automotive, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and possibly crucial piece we’ve, is a technical operations middle [TOC]. When you’ve got a cellular phone, there’s a technical operations middle that’s resetting your cellphone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even comprehend it. That’s what we’re in a position to do—we will see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do components of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep. If you happen to choose a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two completely different cellphone calls. That’s what clients are annoyed with. One cellphone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, preserve it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re in search of, and that’s what we do.
One in every of our unique buyers was an organization known as Amazon, and so they demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide clients. You may ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” and so they’d say it’s 99.7. They’ll let you know that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do components of the stack a la carte. The one factor we is not going to decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that lots of the issues are as a result of there is likely to be half a dozen corporations and organizations concerned with a undertaking.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the pinnacle. We do accomplice with sure clients or sure corporations. For engineering, we’d accomplice with somebody. I’ll accomplice on the high of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as dangerous. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit companies—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was after I bought to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their arms. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer and so they say, “We’ve bought three completely different manufacturers of chargers on this large depot as a result of we purchased them at completely different instances, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They could have to have a look at three screens. They’ve three completely different software program packages and three completely different upkeep methods. With us, it’s all on one display. I feel that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the largest promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re in a position to see every little thing in a single spot from an operations middle.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a bunch of transit companies about reliability at their depots, and it was solely after I bought to 70% and 60% that individuals began elevating their arms.”
For these about to affect
Charged: How about some handy-dandy suggestions for fleet operators? What are a number of the issues that may go mistaken, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear probably the most is “It’s essential to pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? After I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, large, large corporations, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re in all probability 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for a protracted, very long time, in order that they have buildings that they by no means thought they’d electrify. Then you’ve got Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re getting ready for electrification. So, the error I feel will get made is, when you take UPS for example, they’re going to say, “We bought 100 vans. We now have to cost all of them. We’ve bought one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We’d like 5.” And they’ll instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I want 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s while you hear everyone busting out laughing at the back of the room.
Nicely, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. We do lots of modeling for patrons. “That is what number of automobiles we’ve. That is the vitality storage on board, and that is how a lot energy we’ve on the depot.” We mannequin for them the scale charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the vitality as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two completely different instructions. I ship it to the power conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular instances of evening at a sure energy degree.
Don’t over-capitalize the undertaking. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you really want into that facility. You may work with the utility on that, but in addition work with corporations like EO that will help you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking tens of millions of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of. That’s in all probability the largest mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot aspect.
If we hear a buyer say, “Nicely, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing lots of proper now with clients that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping every little thing out—rip and change. Now, the know-how’s modified, I’ll provide you with that. However on the similar time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses underneath one roof. They knew from the start they have been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes have been arrange so they may simply add the chargers as they went alongside. Every part within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous necessary.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they suppose. Don’t over-capitalize the undertaking. Work with corporations like EO that will help you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I believe (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about this stuff) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We bought a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as typical.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I feel that’s precisely what they have been considering. Is it political? It may be in some instances the place we’ve to take care of a authorities mandate. What I really like about Florida, there’s so many shoppers which are going electrical that don’t must. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Nicely, immediately, on an electrical bus, you may go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like a daily fueling station. They refill at evening, and so they run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month charge
Charged: You provide a whole turnkey service for a month-to-month fee. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll package deal our Stage 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations middle, and cost one month-to-month charge—it’s $59. That bundle is de facto engaging to lots of fleet clients.
We provide a month-to-month fee by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants fluctuate. Some clients have lots of idle time. Some clients are placing lots of miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as effectively. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, and so they say, “We don’t want lots of batteries on our vans, as a result of, in all the day, we’d go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in visitors in Manhattan. That’s completely different from any individual in Kansas that is likely to be operating a good distance. So, we need to give these choices to clients and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to wish DC quick chargers, however they are able to get by with the Stage 2 and keep away from a number of the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. We now have our personal charger known as the Genius Fleet, which is a Stage 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it matches with lots of fleet clients as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The dimensions of the charger is de facto engaging—you don’t must get right into a Stage 3, which could be very costly. And the neat factor in regards to the Genius is we’ve them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I want 10 chargers,” we will ship them inside 24 hours. We now have them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Stage 2 charger in Europe, however the one we’ve right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger aspect, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, while you see our label on it, you need to stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s any individual else’s. We try this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re blissful.
The standard questions on developments
Charged: Individuals are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s lots of corporations, and a few them not too long ago went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I feel it’s a pattern. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, college bus and transit, that {hardware} has to satisfy Purchase America requirements. That implies that that charger must be in-built the USA, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of corporations. Not too long ago, you in all probability noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We predict that’s factor as a result of we predict Heliox has a very good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger corporations? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I might say we want the appropriate variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and may service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep aspect. However I feel consolidation is completely going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: We now have a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I adore it as a result of it’s perhaps half the scale of a van, and it matches within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 automobiles on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to keep up, and it permits a buyer to actually scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they’ll add one other one and one other one, and so they can actually get their complete fleet electrified with out chargers taking on house.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one automobile at a super-high price, however it permits you to cut up that up. Is that one thing you may’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You may, however you’re restricted—let’s say you’re taking a 150 kW charger, you may put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually offers you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage know-how, or are you aware of some business functions?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them very well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was one among our companions at Proterra. They do have the know-how, however it’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The varsity bus market actually needs it, and so they need it at scale. I feel V2G will get pushed by the client. Dwelling right here in Florida, if we’ve a storm and the electrical energy goes down, effectively, I’ve bought an influence station proper right here—we’ve bought 1,000 college buses sitting there filled with vitality. I simply must have the aptitude to drag it off that bus and into one other automobile or a facility. However I nonetheless suppose it’s in pilot—I can’t provide you with an instance of a business utility the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
